Toronto Trust Cemeteries on FamilySearch

For those with ancestors and relatives who were buried in several of the Toronto Trust cemeteries FamilySearch has created a searchable name index as part of a project with the Toronto Branch of the Ontario Genealogical Society. You can find the search page at Canada, Ontario, Toronto Trust Cemeteries, 1826-1989.

Screen capture of the Canada, Ontario, Toronto Trust Cemeteries, 1826-1989 search page from FamilySearch.

However, just like any searchable database, before you dive right in and start your searching you really need to be aware of the limitations within that name index. 

Before you begin first click on that "How to use this collection" button on the search screen and read the page that appears. This helps set your expectations of what might be found in the searchable index. Note the cemeteries and the range of dates covered in the index:

• York General Burying Ground (also called Potter’s Field), 1826-1855
• Necropolis Cemetery, 1850-1912 (the index will continue to 1935)
• Mount Pleasant Cemetery, 1876-1933
• Prospect Cemetery, 1890-1935

You can even browse the images by clicking on the "Browse all 7,234 images" button. But, if you are like me, you will get very confused and puzzled when you see the list of volumes for the four cemeteries since, with the except of "Potters' Field Cemetery", they all have several volumes with the same volume number but different date ranges as you can see from this image for the image waypoints of Prospect Cemetery. There is also a gap in the dates for volume 4.

Screen capture of the image waypoints for Prospect Cemetery from the Canada, Ontario, Toronto Trust Cemeteries, 1826-1989 search page on FamilySearch.

So just where are these digitized volumes really found on FamilySearch?

For that we need to use the FamilySearch Catalog. If you aren't familiar with the catalogue then you are missing out on a huge (I mean really, really big!) part of FamilySearch. The catalogue is just that, a catalogue of all the books, manuscripts, microfilms, volumes, and digitized collections held by FamilySearch. Of course, not all of it is online. And even if it is online in a digitized format it may not be accessible from the comfort of your home due to licensing agreements. You can tell if a digitized set of records can only be viewed from a Family History Center or Affiliate since those records have a key above the camera icon in the collection list.

Just like searching the genealogy records, you can also search the FamilySearch Catalog [see the update at the end of this post for a better way to locate for this set of collections]. When searching for a place it goes from largest to smallest in terms of jurisdiction.

Screen capture of a search for the place Canada, Ontario, Toronto in the FamilySearch Catalog search screen.

You might note that it actually doesn't find "Canada, Ontario, Toronto" but the first item in the possible places to select from is "Canada, Ontario, York, Toronto". That is the place we want.

Screen capture of the partial list of subjects found in the "Canada, Ontario, York, Toronto" catalogue on FamilySearch.

You will see a really long list of possible subjects for just "Canada, Ontario, York, Toronto" but notice that one of the items is "Cemeteries". In the parentheses it indicates that there are 24 collections within. Clicking on that line will open up the list of collections. Even though I'm focusing on just a few of the items in the list make sure you glance through the full list. The ones I'm focused on for now are these four:

Screen capture of four burial records/registers of the Toronto Trust Cemeteries listed in Cemeteries within "Canada, Ontario, York, Toronto".

I'm going to pick on Prospect cemetery to highlight what can be found in most of those collections.

Screen capture showing death registers and interment registers for Prospect Cemetery in Toronto, Ontario, Canada found on FamilySearch.

Looking at the above image you might note that there are death registers and interment registers. If we look back at the list of images returned from the "Canada, Ontario, Toronto Trust Cemeteries, 1826-1989" search page and compare it to this list then you can see that the first "Volume 04", which has a date range of 1930-1935, is probably for a Death register. What about the second "Volume 04" from 1953-1962? That is probably from the "INDEXES to death/interment registers v.4-7" which started in 1953. So that searchable name index is probably a combination of an index created from the death registers directly and a a transcription of an existing index. Confused? That's normal so don't worry!

You might have also noticed that only two of the digitized items have a magnifying glass on the right side. Those are the ones which are searchable. The rest...well...we have to do the work by looking in those digitized but non-computer searchable indexes to find the number of the entry in the death or interment register. Then we have to manually go through the death/interment registers to find that number. I'm not going to walk you through how to bounce (my term for how I use the digitized images on FamilySearch) through the images of the pages from the index. It is just one of those skills you pick up the more you use FamilySearch. But it really isn't too hard!

From a death notice in the Toronto Star I know that my great-grandfather, George Kaye Warrener, who died in 1945 was supposed to have been buried in Prospect Cemetery. In theory I should be able to find him in the "INDEXES to death/interment registers v. 1-3 1890-1953". It is also important to realize that those digitized set of images are not the only collections on this specific virtual microfilm but are found in items 7-9. So I had to "fast forward" through the images and then take a look in each of the three registers.

"Index to Death Register, v. 2,"  FamilySearch, Images (www.familysearch.org : accessed 9 Feb 2022), p. 558, George Kaye Warrener [ name highlighted in a red box]; citing DGS 8265661, item 8, image 935 of 1113.

Here he is in the index to the death registers. Since there was more than one index register I had to start with the first one and then move on to the next. I now know I need to find the death/interment register book which has number 71002 in it.

Even without knowing his date of death I could see that the "Death registers v. 4-6 (52529-87250)" is probably where I want to look. But note the little gotcha for the Interment registers:

(NOTE: The following interment registers were filmed in descending numerical and chronological order within each volume, i.e. 1957-1953, 1962-1958, 1967-1963, etc.)

This can really mess you up if you are expecting the pages for 1953 to be first in order in the images. So always read and pay attention to the notes. They are important!

Quickly I was able to find the page in the Death register with the entry for George Kaye Warrener. Since these registers are really two pages make sure you review the left and right page to see all the information.

"Death Register, v. 5,"  FamilySearch, Images (www.familysearch.org : accessed 9 Feb 2022), p. 267, no. 71002, George Kaye Warrener; citing DGS 8265660, item 2, image 371 of 841.

From the left side of the page, if I didn't already have his date of death I now know it is 26 Feb 1945, that he died of myocarditis, and he was interred on 1 Mar 1945. On the right side of the page I learn that he was buried in section 26, lot 625 and the owner of that lot is Ernest and Mary Palmer. Also the nearest relation is Mrs. Henrietta Warrener of 688 Gladstone Avenue. Because this is my own family line I know that Henrietta is his wife.

What next?

It just so happens, at least for the Prospect, Mount Pleasant, and Necropolis Cemeteries, the Plot cards have also been digitized and made available to us also on FamilySearch. Looking at the list of digitized records I see that I need to look at FHL 1493608/DGS 8738039 "Plot cards: Section 26 (no. 426-942) Sections 27-28 Section 30 (no. 1-750)" to locate the plot card.

"Plot cards: Section 26 (no. 426-942) Sections 27-28 Section 30 (no. 1-750),"  FamilySearch, Images (www.familysearch.org : accessed 9 Feb 2022), Section 26, Lot 625; citing DGS 8738039, item 1, image 407 of 3078.

Now we know who is buried in Section 26, Lot 625 and even the dates of death. Those other two buried with George Kaye Warrener? From my research I know that Mary Adele Palmer is his daughter (my grand-aunt) and Ernest George Palmer is Mary's husband. I now have their register numbers and dates of death so I can quickly look up their entries in the death/interment registers.

But don't stop there!

If you go to the next image you will even see how the grave has been laid out. How cool is that!

"Plot cards: Section 26 (no. 426-942) Sections 27-28 Section 30 (no. 1-750),"  FamilySearch, Images (www.familysearch.org : accessed 9 Feb 2022), Section 26, Lot 625, plot layout; citing DGS 8738039, item 1, image 408 of 3078.

Yet wait a second. Where is his wife Henrietta? She's not buried with him. From her death notice in the Toronto Star I know that she died in 1966 and never remarried. Is there any record of her?

Well, yes. In the "Crematorium records, 1933-1989" collection with "Toronto Crematorium (Ontario); Toronto Trust Cemeteries (Ontario)" listed as the author. Just like with the burial registers I soon found an entry for Henrietta Jane Whitfield Warrener, page 9358. This is one of the registers which was filmed backwards but it still didn't take long to find her in the cremation register.

"Cremation Register, v. 2,"  FamilySearch, Images (www.familysearch.org : accessed 9 Feb 2022), no. 9358, Henrietta Jane Whitfield Warrener [image formatted for blog]; citing DGS 8362351, item 1, image 205 of 1170.

In that entry, on the far right side we can see that there is a notation of "Remains sent to Hespeler on Nov. 22/66".

There is even a collection of a number of digitized images from the Mount Pleasant Group from 1989 to 1995 titled "Ontario, Toronto cemetery records, 1989-1995" available for one to review from the comfort of one's home. Not just for the Necropolis, Prospect, or Mount Pleasant cemeteries but for several others managed by the Mount Pleasant Group.

Of course these collection aren't just the only resources for you if you have ancestors or relatives buried in those cemeteries. The Mount Pleasant Group has a database on their site called "Find A Grave". There are a few challenges with using this database since you have to know the cemetery the person is interred plus you need to know how the surname has been spelled in the database. Also you have to provide at least an initial for the first name. But it might help you find details about where someone is buried. Here is what was returned when I searched their site for Prospect Cemetery, surname: Warrener, first name: G

• Given Name: George Kage
• Surname: Warrener
• Year of Burial: 1945
• Age of Deceased: 0
• Property Type: Land
• Section: 26
• Lot: 625
  

What is nice about the Mount Pleasant Group Find A Grave database is that they also provide a map so you can visit where the person is buried. This is always handy when dealing with large cemeteries. Additionally, with the section and lot information I could have gone directly to the Plot Cards to find his register number and then look him up the death/interment register.

Then there is also Find a Grave to help you locate a burial. However, with Find a Grave the information is quite often provided by volunteers based not just on what may be recorded on a marker but from their own research. So I always treat what is on Find a Grave as a clue unless I can actually view an image of the marker. Even then there may be errors.

Here is the marker for George Kaye Warrener in Prospect Cemetery from his entry on Find a Grave.

Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/169703644/george-kaye-warrener : accessed 9 February 2022), memorial page for George Kaye Warrener (1870–1945), Find a Grave Memorial ID 169703644, citing Prospect Cemetery, Toronto, Toronto Municipality, Ontario, Canada ; Maintained by Family Foliage (contributor 49085284).

You might notice a Ronald MacGregor Warrener recorded on that marker yet he's not listed on the plot card. Is the plot card wrong? Not at all! Ronald is actually buried with his fallen comrades at the Agira Canadian War Cemetery in Sicily. Just another reminder that one can't believe that everyone listed on a grave marker or memorial stone is actually buried there.

There are many other sites to help you in your search of an ancestor or relative in these cemeteries such as:

• BillionGraves
• TONI - The Ontario Name Index from Ontario Ancestors
• Canadian Headstones
• Ontario Cemetery Finding Aid
• Ontario, Canada, Toronto Trust Cemeteries, 1826-1989 on Ancestry
  

 

Happy researching!

 

[2024 Jan 28: With the changes to the FamilySearch Catalog when it comes to searching by places in Ontario, see the post "Toronto Trust Cemeteries on FamilySearch - Updated" for a different way of locating these collections on FamilySearch

A "Lost" Child - Henrietta Warrener

It isn't very often when I can discover a new close relative to add to my family tree. Today is one of those days.

While waiting for the January BIFHSGO monthly meeting to start I decided to pay attention to a hint on the FamilySearch one-world tree where it suggested that there may be a missing child for George Kaye Warrener and Henrietta Jane Whitfield McGregor, my great-grandparents. I've been researching my own tree for about 20 years and for the lines to my great-grandparents I thought I had everyone recorded but I figured, a quick check wouldn't hurt.

 

Looking at the family for George and Henrietta I have:

• Winifred Violet (1904-1983)
  
• Mary Adela (1906-1972)
  
• George (1908-1966)
  
• Ronald McGregor (1913-1943)
  
• Lillian Barbara (1916-1998)

You might notice that there is a larger gap between George and Ronald between 1908 and 1913 than between the other children. I also knew that George Kaye Warrener's family was residing in the Dalmuir area of Dumbartonshire, Scotland when the known children were born.

So it was off to do a quick check on ScotlandsPeople to see what might appears.

 

Screen capture from ScotlandsPeople of the Warrener 1908-1913 search query.

As you can see, my search is very simple, the last name of Warrener and the date range of 1908 to 1913.

 

Screen capture from ScotlandsPeople for Statutory registers results from Warrener 1908-1913 search query.

In the returned information there are 3 birth and 1 death record. Since the range included the birth years for George and Ronald I expected two records but not three. Since viewing the index return on ScotlandsPeople is free I clicked on the "view 3 records" to see what names appear.

 

Screen capture from ScotlandsPeople for Statutory birth registers results from Warrener 1908-1913 search query.

 

 

The RD or registration district that encompasses Dalmuir is "Old or West Kilpatrick" so seeing George and Ronald McGregor make sense. But who the heck is this Henrietta born in 1911 and registered in that same district? Henrietta is the name of my great-grandmother so could it be a daughter of George Kaye and Henrietta Warrener?

Now is when I needed to shell out a pound or so to view the digitized image for the record of Henrietta Warrener to learn who her parents are.

 

Dumbartonshire, Scotland, "Statutory Births 1855-2009," 1911 Births in the Parish of Old Kilpatrick, p. 228, Henrietta Warrener; digital image, General Register Office for Scotland,  ScotlandsPeople (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk: 9 Jan 2021).

This is when my jaw dropped. I had missed a child of George Kaye Warrener and Henrietta Jane Whitfield McGregor. I had never heard of this child from my grandmother Winifred or my Dad. She was born 24 May 1911 at 1 Shaftsbury Place in Dalmuir. I know of that address since it is same place many of the children of George Kaye and Henrietta Warrener were born.

There is also a single death record for that period.

 

Screen capture from ScotlandsPeople for Statutory death registers results from Warrener 1908-1913 search query.

That looks to be the same person but the only way to be certain is to pay my 6 credits (£1.50) to view the digitized image of the death record.

 

Dumbartonshire, Scotland, "Statutory Deaths 1855-2009," 1912 Deaths in the Parish of Old Kilpatrick, p. 2, Henrietta Warrener; digital image, General Register Office for Scotland,  ScotlandsPeople (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk: 9 Jan 2021).

And, unfortunately or fortunately depending on your perspective, it is the civil statutory death registration for Henrietta. She died on 31 Dec 1911 at about 11 p.m. from measles.

Why, until this time, was she missed by me and others?

One reason is that she was born just after the 1911 census of Scotland took place on 2 Apr 1911. If she had been born 2 months earlier then she would have appeared in that enumeration.

 

However, the main reason is on me. I just didn't pay attention to the several year gap between George and Ronald. It wasn't until FamilySearch prodded me that there may be missing child that I took the time to do a quick check.

So welcome to the family Henrietta. You are no longer lost to the sands of time and will now be remembered by generations to come.

Spot the Differences - Index -> Transcription -> Original

Have you ever come across a record when you are doing your genealogy and family history research that just didn't quite make sense but you went with it anyways? That is often the case when we are using indexes or transcriptions to aid us in the quest to fill in the blanks in the lives of our ancestors. However, by doing so those records can sometimes provide us with wrong information, throw us off track, or even confuse us further. Here is one such case in my own tree...

For a few years years I had the marriage of William Warrener and Ann Rudsdale recorded as happening on 5 Jul 1807 in Hutton Bushel, Yorkshire, England. That information came from the "England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973" index on Ancestry:

Screen capture of the index page for Wm. Warner in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 collection on Ancestry.com

Later I learned about the Family History Library (FHL) microfilms and when their digitization project took off I was even happier. Since there is a FHL Film Number specified in the index entry I knew I should be able to view the film from which this index was created, assuming it had been digitized. Maybe there is additional information recorded in the source document. 

In May 2018 I did just that. Here is the snippet from where the index was created. That information came from transcriptions made in 1940 by Edward P. Stapleton. This transcription was microfilmed, and later digitized, by the folks at FamilySearch:

"England, Marriages, 1538–1973," database, FamilySearch, FamilySearch (www.familysearch.org : accessed 28 Jun 2012), Wm. Warner and Ann Rudsdale, 5 Jul 1807, Parish of Hutton-Bushel, Yorkshire; citing Marriage Records, FHL microfilm 558,353.

Do you see any issues with what has been transcribed for Wm Warrener of Hackness and Ann Rudsdale of H.B?

The first issue I noticed was the difference of names for the spouse of Ann Rudsdale. Assuming that there aren't two Ann Rudsdales of Hutton-Bushel marrying two different Williams of Hackness, her future husband is recorded as having the surname of "Warrener" in the banns and "Warner" in the marriage. Of course, that might be just how the names were recorded in the register so that can be easily explained.

How about the banns?

For those that aren't aware, the banns are the public announcements made in the church in the weeks prior to the marriage to allow anyone to object to the couple being wed based on little pesky details such as one of the parties already being married to someone else or the couple being related though a prohibited kinship¹. The banns were usually read three consecutive Sundays unless there were extenuating circumstances.

If William and Ann had their banns read in the church on June 23, July 5, and July 12 how could they have been married on July 5?

This had always bothered me but I never did anything about it. However, with the ongoing microfilm digitization project by the wonderful folks that operate FamilySearch, many records are becoming available to us long-distance researchers. Recently I noticed that the parish registers for Hutton Bushel had been digitized but only viewable at a Family History Center or affiliate. I made a to-do item for myself for the next time I visited the Family History Center (about once a month). There could be even more information in the original document not found in the transcription.

Here is what I recently found in the parish register:

Parish of Hutton-Bushell (Hutton-Bushell, Yorkshire, England), "Marriages, banns, 1754-1816, 1822," Banns and marriage of William Warner and Ann Rudsdale, married 25 Jul 1807; FHL microfilm DGS 100557722, item 1, image 34.

From the various handwriting in the signatures it would seem that this might have been recorded at the time of the wedding². From the register it appears to state:

"Banns of Marriage between William Warner of the Parish of Hackness & Ann Rudsdale of Hutton Bushel were published June 21 28 and 5 of July"

also

"William Warner of the Parish of Hackness Bachelor and Ann Rudsdale Spinster of the Parish of Hutton Buschel Married in this Church by Banns this twenty fifth Day of July in the Year One Thousand Seven eight Hundred and seven..."

Oops, not just additional information was found but very different facts! 

It looks the transcription was just a little off. The banns were published not on June 23, July 5 and, July 12 but on June 21, June 28, and July 5. The marriage didn't take place on July 5 but on July 25. Well, at least the year is correct. Additionally, in the three places William is mentioned in the register his surname has been recorded as "Warner". Of course, I don't know if this is the record that Mr. Stapleton was using for creating his transcriptions.

Yet, this is why relying only on indexes and transcriptions can cause you grief in your efforts to document the family history of a line. Often the index or transcription is missing information or can even have the wrong details.

Whenever possible, try to locate the source of a transcription or index. If the document isn't readily available due to distance or cost at least make a to-do entry for yourself to periodically check for it being available online via the various digitization projects. You might just be pleasantly surprised at what you find.

---

1. See the Table of Kindred and Affinity in the 1760 printing of the "The book of common prayer and administration of the sacraments, and other rites and ceremonies of the Church, according to the use of the Church of England : together with the Psalter, or, Psalms of David, pointed as they are to be sung or said in churches" at https://archive.org/details/bookofcommonpray00chur_4/page/n693.

2. Anyone else get excited when they come across the signature on a document of their ancestor?

"An Unexpected Hint Unveils...What?" Continued

In my post "An Unexpected Hint Unveils...What?" I looked at the curious circumstance of William John Gunnee and his second family in Australia while back in England it appeared that he had left his first family. So what happened to his first wife Maud Louisa Mansfield?

But first a quick recap concerning William and Maud.

On 8 May 1904 William John Gunnee married Maud Louisa Mansfield, the daughter of Harry Mansfield, a lighterman.

"London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921," database, Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : accessed 4 Jul 2012), William John Gunnee and Maud Louisa Mansfield, married 8 May 1904; citing London Metropolitan Archives, Saint Michael And All Angels, Bromley, Register of marriages, P88/MIC, Item 024.

On 6 Jan 1906, Maud gave birth to a son, Harold Sheil Gunnee, at 19 Lake Street, Ratcliff in London.

England and Wales, birth certificate for Harold Shiel Gunnee, born 6 Jan 1906; citing 1c/375/201, Mar quarter 1906, Stepney registration district, Shadwell and Ratchiff sub-district; General Register Office, Southport.

Sometime between early 1905 and early 1907 he departed England and arrived in Australia where he met and wed Ethel May Millen on 17 Feb 1907.

What about his wife Maud Louisa (nee Mansfield) and his son Harold Sheil Gunnee back in England? What happened to them? This is where it continues to stay interesting. At least from a genealogy and family history perspective.

After 1905 in the record searches I first came across her and her son living in the household of Henry George Pocock in the 1911 census of England that took place on 2 Apr 1911. In that enumeration a Blanche Maud Pocock was also included and it looked like she was the daughter of Henry George Pocock but the relationship column was a bit confusing with pencil and ink notations.

1911 census of England, London, 8 Woollett Street, Poplar, Household of Henry George Pocock; digital images, Ancestry,com Operations, Inc., Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : accessed 4 Jul 2012); citing RG 78 PN 60, RG 14 PN 1718, registration district (RD) 22, sub district (SD) 3, enumeration district (ED) 2, schedule number (SN) 66.

Possibly Blanche was the daughter of Henry's first wife since his marital status was "widower". So a few pounds and days later I had a PDF of her birth registration from the General Register Office of England and Wales.

England and Wales, birth certificate for Blanche Maude Pocock, born 22 Sep 1909; citing 1c/540/428, Dec quarter 1909, Poplar registration district; General Register Office, Southport.

Hmmm, it seems that Maud Louisa has taken the "Pocock" name as her own when she registered the 22 Sep 1909 birth of her daughter Blanche. That means I should be looking for a marriage of Maud Louisa Mansfield/Gunnee sometime between 1905 and 1909. I did find several possible marriages using the FreeBMD indexes but none to a Popock or variation of that name. I reversed the search to find any marriages for a Henry George Pocock in the same time frame. Still no good matches found. So I expanded the time frame to include up to 1912. Lo and behold a marriage for Henry G Pocock and Maud L Gunner appeared in the index for marriages registered in the fourth quarter of 1911.

Screen capture of Marriages Dec 1911 results for a search for Henry Pocock in the FreeBMD index.

I've seen "Gunner" as a transcription error before and the registration district, Poplar, is the same as their daughter Blanche. Even looking at the image of the index page it said "Gunner" but I took a gamble, paid even more pounds, and waited three weeks to get the marriage registration send to me by postal mail.

England and Wales, marriage certificate for Henry Pocock and Maud Louisa Gunnee, married 17 Oct 1911; citing 1c/1108/85, Dec quarter 1911, Poplar registration district; General Register Office, Southport.

This definitely appears to be "Gunnee" on the registration and her maiden surname is Mansfield. All the information I know about her matches what is on this document. The address for both Henry George Pocock and Maud Louisa Gunnee matches that recorded for their daughter Blanche's birth. From the document Henry and Maud were married 17 Oct 1911, several months after the 1911 census, and it took place at the Register Office (not included in the image posted) and not in a church. Maud again states that she was a widow and Henry is recorded as a bachelor (not a widower!). That 1911 census enumeration really is an interesting mishmash of confusing details.

They had at least one other child, Gladys Ellen Rose Pocock¹ born on 6 Jun 1913 in Barking, Essex, England. Henry, Maud, and Gladys could even be found in the 1939 Register of England and Wales in Barking, Essex. The red stroke through Maud's entry referred to a heavily redacted page providing the exact same information.

1939 Register, Essex, England, RG 101, piece 1057A, image 15, 82 Wedderburn Road, Barking, Essex, household of Henry G Pocock.

What about William John Gunnee and Maud Louisa Manfields' son Harold Shiel Gunnee? From the various records it appears that Harold kept the Gunnee name in his name but used the "Pocock" surname from his step-father. This can be seen in the Principal Probate Registry for the Calendar of the Grants of Probate and Letters of Administration made in the Probate Registries of the High Court of Justice in England.

Ancestry.com, "National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995," database on-line, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : accessed 13 Jul 2019), entry for Harold Shiel Gunnee Pocock, died 23 Jan 1978.

Based on the marriage index and also the 1939 Register of England and Wales it appears that Harold married Rosalind Ellen Tyler in 1929 and they had at least four children.

I think a few lessons can be taken from this little bit of exploration into this branch of my family:

• Census enumerations and other documents can't be taken as gospel, people don't necessarily tell the truth.
• Always try to corroborate the facts found in the records you find.
• If there have been corrections or edits to document then following up on the changes can sometimes highlight something "interesting".
• Always expand your search if you can't find the event in the expected time frame. You might be surprised at what you come across.

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1. England and Wales, birth certificate for Gladys Ellen Rose Pocock, born 6 Jun 1913; citing 4a/1168/267, Sep quarter 1913, Romford registration district; General Register Office, Southport.

An Unexpected Hint Unveils...What?

How many of you have come across a set of record hints from Ancestry for someone in your tree and they just don't make any sense? This was the case for me with a second cousin twice removed by the name of William John Gunnee.

But first I need to set the stage and lay out what I thought I knew about him.

I originally came across him in the 1891 census of England living with his father Samuel I Gunnee, his mother Rosa, and sister Florence R in London.

1891 census of England, London, Civil Parish of St John Zachary, Cripplegate Ward, folio 77, page 5, William J Gunnee; digital images, Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : accessed 4 Jul 2012); citing PRO RG 12/239.

From various other records I had learned that his father was Samuel Ingmire Gunnee (1850-1897), a carpenter, and his mother was Rosa Cleaver. It appears he was taken on by Robert James Snell according to the transcription from Findmypast in the "Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010" record set from their "Binding Records 1692-1949"¹. It was from those records that I learned that he was most likely born on 28 Jan 1882 in Hammersmith².

I also learned that on 8 May 1904 he married Maud Louisa Mansfield, the daughter of Harry Mansfield, a lighterman.

"London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921," database, Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : accessed 4 Jul 2012), William John Gunnee and Maud Louisa Mansfield, married 8 May 1904; citing London Metropolitan Archives, Saint Michael And All Angels, Bromley, Register of marriages, P88/MIC, Item 024.

He had a son, Harold Shiel Gunnee, on 6 Jan 1906⁴. At that time William John Gunnee was no longer a lighterman but was a member of the Metropolitan Fire Brigade.

However, in the 1911 census he is no longer with the family and his wife, "Maude Louise Gunnee" is recorded as a widow and living in the household of Henry George Pocock. Unfortunate there are a number of corrections made in pencil to this page that are very hard to decipher, especially when it comes to the relationships to the head of the household.

1911 census of England, London, 8 Woollett Street, Poplar, Household of Henry George Pocock; digital images, Ancestry,com Operations, Inc., Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : accessed 4 Jul 2012); citing  RG 78 PN 60, RG 14 PN 1718, registration district (RD) 22, sub district (SD) 3, enumeration district (ED) 2, schedule number (SN) 66.

I had assumed that William John Gunnee had died between 1901 and 1911 but I couldn't find any records of him in the civil registration death index. So I left him in 2012 and continued on working on other family members and branches of my tree. That was until I recently started reviewing the 1939 Register of England and Wales. I was looking for his son Harold in that registration and figured I'd also see if anything had popped up on Ancestry for his father William John.

A hint for a "William J Gunnee" marrying Ethel M Millen in 1907 in New South Wales showed up in the list of possible hints on Ancestry. I really do try to avoid only using indexes since often, as in this case, there just isn't enough information to make an informed decision. Fortunately, with very little effort, I found the marriage registration in the "Sydney, Australia, Anglican Parish Registers, 1814-2011" collection on Ancestry.

What do I find but a William John Gunnee, a bachelor, born in London, England about 1882 working as fireman with the Castlereagh Fire Brigade, and his parents are Samuel Gunnee (deceased), a carpenter, and Rosa Cleaver. This really does look like this is the William John Gunnee that married Maud Louisa Mansfield. So it appears that he left his wife and son in England, moved to Australia, and remarried. I'd hazard a guess that the odds of two distinct William John Gunnees with the exact same parents and other identifying details are pretty darn slim!
 
As I carried on in my research into William John Gunnee I see that he appears to have settled down in New South Wales and had a family of at least five children, three of which survived to adulthood. He outlived his first Australian wife, Ethel May Millen (~1887-1938), and married the widow Caroline Edith (nee Jackson) Ireland in 1939⁵. He and his second (or is that third) wife, Caroline, sailed from Sydney in early 1953 and arrived in Tilbury, Essex, England on 13 Apr 1953 on board the Strathmore⁶. However, he never made it back to Australia. On 20 May 1953 he died while in England⁷.

From a family history point of view, this make for one "interesting" story to follow⁸. As we all should know, there is always more than one perspective on a story. With these events taking place over a century ago, most likely only the immediate family members might actually know what occurred.

The story isn't quite over yet. I'm still researching what happened to his first wife, Maud Louisa Mansfield. Maybe I'll have a follow up post about her.

This just goes to show that you need to follow up on each and every hint that Ancestry provides by viewing the record and not just the transcription or index. Sometimes those unexpected and unusual hints can make the story of your family even more interesting.

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1. "Thames watermen and lightermen 1688-2010," database, Findmypast (www.findmypast.com : accessed 4 Jul 2012), William John Gunnee, bound 8 Mar 1898; citing Binding Records 1692-1949, Thames watermen and lightermen.

2. Yes, I have a to-do item to order his birth registration³ but there is only so much money in the budget for genealogy research.

3. FreeBMD, "England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915," database, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : accessed 4 Jul 2012), entry for William John Gunnee, volume 1a, page 245, Mar quarter 1882, Fulham district; citing the General Register Office's England and Wales Civil Registration Indexes.

4. England and Wales, birth certificate for Harold Shiel Gunnee, born 6 Jan 1906; citing 1c/375/201, Mar quarter 1906, Stepney registration district, Shadwell and Ratchiff sub-district; General Register Office, Southport.

5. St. John (Rockdale, New South Wales, Australia), Sydney, Australia, Anglican Parish Registers, 1814-2011, "Rockdale St John 1938-1942,"  marriage of William John Gunnee and Caroline Edith Ireland (nee Jackson), 12 Oct 1939; digital images, Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : accessed 6 Jul 2019).

6. Ancestry.com, "UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960," database, Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com : accessed 6 Jul 2019), entry for William Gunnee, arriving Tilbury, 13 Apr 1953; citing The National Archives of the UK; Kew, Surrey, England; Board of Trade: Commercial and Statistical Department and successors: Inwards Passenger Lists; Class: BT26; Piece: 1297; Original data: Board of Trade: Commercial and Statistical Department and successors: Inwards Passenger Lists. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA). Series BT26, 1,472 pieces.

7. "Death notice for William John Gunnee," The Sydney Morning Herald, 25 May 1953, p. 14, col. 2; digital images, Trove (trove.nla.gov.au : accessed 7 Jul 2019).

8. Come on, who among you don't like to have a black sheep or two in the family to keep things interesting?

Re-examining Assumptions

One thing we need to do on a periodic basis when doing our genealogy and family history research is to re-examine our assumptions when it comes the "hmmm, is this the same person?" situation.

For over 10 years I had a note associated with my 2nd great-grandfather George Warrener of Cayton, Yorkshire, England. This note was concerning a possible second marriage after his first wife, Mary Ann Kay, died in 1876 in Stockton, County Durham, England. This possible second marriage was to Jemima Halliman (nee Jordan) in Stockton-on-Tees, County Durham, England in 1899:

England and Wales, marriage certificate for George Warrener and Jemima Halliman (nee Jordon), married 26 Dec 1899; citing 10a/155/131, Dec quarter 1899, Stockton registration district; General Register Office, Southport.

There were a few details in the marriage registration that just didn't fit at the time when I was first looking at the record:

1. He was listed as age 64 years (born about 1835) when I have him recorded as being baptized in 1829.
2. His occupation was a coal dealer yet I'd only seen him recorded in his later years as working as a foreman in a brick yard.
3. The occupation of his deceased father, William Warrener, was listed as "farm bailiff". In all the records I had for William he was always an AgLab.

None of these were showstoppers per se but at the time I just couldn't convince myself that the George Warrener that married Jemima Halliman was the same person as the George Warrener that married my 2nd great-grandmother May Ann Kay. 

Of course, that was before I started on my current project of reviewing family members that might be found in the 1939 England and Wales Register that was taken on September 29, 1939.

One of the names that was in the list to check was that of Elizabeth Warrener, the daughter of George Warrener and Mary Ann Kay. In her civil birth registration it was recorded that she was born on 15 May 1872. On July 24, 1899 she married John William Sadler:

England and Wales, marriage certificate for John William Sadler and Elizabeth Warrener; citing 10A/127/332, Sep quarter 1899, Stockton registration district; General Register Office, Southport.

In the registration she stated her father, George Warrener, was a coal merchant. But is this Elizabeth Warrener the daughter of my 2nd great-grandfather George Warrener?

This is where the 1939 Register comes into play. I found John W. Sadler and his wife Elizabeth recorded as living in Port Talbot, Glamorganshire, Wales:

1939 Register, Bedfordshire, England, RG 101, piece 7367I, image 012, line 29, 4 Greenfield Avenue, Port Talbot, Glamorganshire, Elizabeth Sadler.

One of the really nice details recorded in this 1939 Register is the date of birth of the person, or at least the date provided by the informant.

As you can see, Elizabeth Sadler has a date of birth of May 15, 1872. This is the same date as recorded in the civil registration for Elizabeth, the daughter of George Warrener and Mary Ann Kay. It would seem that the Elizabeth Warrener that married John William Sadler is the same Elizabeth Warrener that is the daughter of my 2nd great-grandfather George Warrener.

This also means that just a few months before George Warrener married Jemima Halliman she recorded her father as being a coal merchant. In his second marriage he states he was a coal dealer. So the occupation change seems to be valid.

This seems to have satisfied the second of my three concerns. What about the other two? Shaving a few years off your age when marrying someone almost half your age doesn't surprise me anymore. I've seen it many times by both partners in marriage registrations since I've been working on my tree since the first time I looked at this record in 2009. That's two concerns down, what about the occupation of his father?

The first time I looked at the marriage record I saw "town bailiff" but with more experience in deciphering writing I now see it as "farm bailiff". Additionally, William died in 1859. So George might have slightly inflated William's standing or William actually was a farm bailiff before he died.

One more point I need to make. I finally really looked at the record and paid attention to the participants. Not just the two being married but also the witnesses. That is when I noticed a "G. K. Warrener" as a witness. G. K. Warrener is most likely my great-grandfather George Kaye Warrener, the youngest son of George Warrener and Mary Ann Kay.

So after ten years from first ordering the marriage registration for George Warrener and Jemima Halliman (nee Jordan) I can finally add her and their son Walter Horsley Warrener, to my family tree.

There are several lessons from today's post:

• You always need to re-examine your assumptions and the associated records as you get additional facts and uncover newly found documents.
• As you improve your own knowledge in doing genealogy and family history research the records in your possession may provide additional clues. Take the time to re-read the documents.
• Don't be afraid to admit that you might be wrong in your initial conclusions. Make the corrections and document your reasons.

To All the Mothers on My Direct Line

Happy Mother's Day

Happy Mother's Day to all the women in my direct line that brought forth and nurtured their children.Without them I wouldn't be here today.

Jill Frances McMullen, Winifred Violet Warrener, Frances Mary Howe, Elizabeth Murdoch, Henrietta Jane Whitfield McGregor, Annie Elizabeth Starr Chipman, Margaret Stewart, Isabella McCulloch, Mary Ann Kay, Henrietta Jane Whitefield, Eliza Ann Wells, Catherine McKinnon, Maria Elizabeth Jenkins, Sarah Eliza Starr, Margaret Orr, Janet Campbell, Mary Smith, Isabella Birnie, Ann Rudsdale, Ann Pape, Susan Fair, Florence Bardge, Ann Fraser, Mary Foley, Jane Innes, Ann McDonald, Sarah E Pickel, Maria Waring Little, Sophia Araminta Cogswell, Thamar Troop, Mary McEwan, Margaret Houston, Margaret Pettigrew, Eleanor Maynard, Jane Philips, Sarah Howell, Hannah Baxter, Elizabeth Sherwood, Mary Ann Fowler, Mary McGown Dickie, Elizabeth Beckwith, Esther Fairweather, Jemima Sawtelle, Lydia Parker, Ann Osborne, Lydia Huntington, Katherine Chipman, Jean Allen, Elizabeth Handley, Margaret Homes, Hope Howland, Elizabeth Young and Elizabeth Tilley.

There are so many more yet I don't know their names but I will keep striving to find them.

Never Forgotten - Ronald "Red" McGregor Warrener

Ronald "Red" McGregor Warrener

"Dog" Company, 48th Highlanders of Canada

11 Jun 1913 - 25 Jul 1943

Died in the hills near Nissoria, Sicily, Italy

"The most gallant fight by 48th Highlanders on a day that was to be recalled with grimness, was the inspiring charge on a pinnacle on the ridge-top by 4 men of Dog Company. Only 8 Germans were holding it, and if there was room to deploy and flank it, this was not tried. The 4 Highlanders attempted to capture the hump of high ground in a gallant, but hopeless straight dash. L/Cpl. Dan (D.J.) Murray was killed on the lip of the first slit trench; he had almost reached the Germans. The body of Pte. Red (R.M. ) Warriner was found three feet away."
"Dileas: History of the 48th Highlanders of Canada, 1929-1956", Kim Beattie, published by 48th Highlanders of Canada, 1957